The Church Fathers on this verse

Ecclesiastes 9:5Meaning & Commentary from the Church Fathers

For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten.

Douay-Rheims

כִּ֧י הַֽחַיִּ֛ים יוֹדְעִ֖ים שֶׁיָּמֻ֑תוּ וְהַמֵּתִ֞ים אֵינָ֧ם יוֹדְעִ֣ים מְא֗וּמָה וְאֵֽין־ע֤וֹד לָהֶם֙ שָׂכָ֔ר כִּ֥י נִשְׁכַּ֖ח זִכְרָֽם׃

Hebrew (Masoretic text)

The Church Fathers on this verse

4 Church Fathers comment on this verse

Jerome of Stridon

4th centuryChurch Father

There exists a glimmer of hope, for a living dog is of greater worth than a deceased lion. The living are aware of their mortality, while the dead are oblivious, having no further reward awaiting them. Their memories fade into obscurity, along with the emotions of love, hatred, and jealousy—they have no stake in the affairs of life under the sun. Previously, it was stated that the hearts of humanity are laden with wickedness, leading ultimately to death; now it is reaffirmed that while one is alive, there exists the opportunity for righteousness, but after death, the chance to perform deeds of goodness is lost. A living sinner may surpass a deceased righteous person if he strives to embrace virtue.

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Indeed, even the lowly and scorned can be deemed better than one who reveled in sin and corruption at the end of his days. This is so because the living, in their fear of death, can accomplish righteous acts, while the deceased can add nothing to what they have carried with them from this life, as expressed in the Psalm: 'forsaken as dead of heart’ (Psalm 30:13). Their capacity for love, hatred, jealousy, and any earthly pursuits ceases with death; they can neither commit further sins nor cultivate virtues.

However, some contest this viewpoint, suggesting that growth and decline may continue post-mortem. They interpret the statement 'and they shall have no more part in the world in all that is done under the sun’ to mean that the dead do not share in the earthly realm we see, but rather they hold a share in a different existence, as the Saviour noted: 'I am not of this world’ (John 8:23), existing under the sun of righteousness. Despite this, the notion remains that even after departing from this life, we, as sentient beings, can experience either downfall or perfection. The Hebrews provide an alternative reading of the verse ‘A living dog is better than a dead lion,’ suggesting that a humble yet living and teaching instructor is more beneficial than a flawless, deceased one. Here, the dog symbolically represents a teacher among many, whereas the lion symbolizes Moses or other prophets.

Nevertheless, preferring a loftier interpretation, we might consider that the dog, in the light of the Gospel, aligns with the Canaanite woman to whom it was proclaimed, ‘Thy faith shall save thee’ (Matt. 9:23), while the dead lion corresponds to the circumcised people, as noted by Balaam’s prophecy: ‘Behold, men shall rise like lions, and like lions shall ascend’ (Num. 23:24). Thus, the living dog represents the Gentiles, and the dead lion symbolizes the Jewish people abandoned by the Lord. In the eyes of the Lord, this living dog holds greater value than the dead lion. For we, who are alive, have knowledge of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, whereas the dead know nothing and harbor no expectation of promises or rewards; their memories are complete. They neither recall what they ought to know, nor does the Lord remember them. Their love for God has vanished, as has the hatred they professed, saying, ‘Hate not them that hate thee, O Lord, I will hate thee, and for Thy stripes I will stand’ (Ps. 138:21). Moreover, their jealousy, akin to that of Phinehas (Num. 25) or Mattathias (1 Mac. 2), has departed. Clearly, they hold no place in the world, for they cannot proclaim, ‘The Lord is my portion’ (Psalm 72:26).

Gregory the Wonderworker

3rd centuryChurch Father

It is frequently asserted that a person who has passed away is entirely forsaken, and that preference should be given to the living rather than the deceased, even if the living one dwells in shadows, suggesting that one who lived poorly is deemed better than a noble who is no longer alive. Those who are living are at least aware of their impending mortality, while the deceased are oblivious to all. There are no rewards awaiting them once they have completed what destiny has ordained. Both animosity and affection towards the deceased have come to an end; with them, all rivalry has ceased, and life has departed. Once a soul leaves this earthly existence, they no longer partake in anything. This is the allure that continues to captivate souls.

Stephan (Jaworski)

18th centuryCommentator

It is stated that only God understands the mysteries within the human heart. However, the saints, particularly those who have passed, do not grasp our vocal prayers, nor do they perceive our pleas or inner groans, much less our unspoken thoughts. This is the assertion of those who oppose this belief, who cite scriptures to support their view: "The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing." I stand in unity with the Holy Orthodox Church, all its Sacred Councils—both Ecumenical and Local—and with all the Holy Fathers who teach and lovingly affirm that the saints who reign with Christ are aware of our circumstances and hear our prayers, not only those expressed verbally but also those concealed within our thoughts.

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This is the steadfast faith and confession of the entire Orthodox Church and its faithful members. This same belief is validated by Holy Scripture. The saints are aware of the prayers of those on earth: FIRST, as they exist in the state of blessedness and in the Divine Presence, the saints are akin to the angels. Christ Himself has said that those who attain to this age “are equal to the angels” (Luke 20:35-36). If the angels, who dwell in eternal joy, are aware of our prayers, then the saints, sharing in that same divine favor, must also receive knowledge of our prayers. This is evident in the Book of Revelation, where the twenty-four elders prostrated before the Lamb, each bearing a harp and golden bowls brimming with incense, identified as the prayers of the saints (Rev. 5:8). These elders represent the saints of both the Old and New Testaments, who at the time of John the Theologian's writing were in glory with Christ. An angel also approached the altar with a golden censer, given a great quantity of incense to offer upon the golden altar before the throne, alongside the prayers of all the saints, with the smoke of the incense rising up with their prayers from the hand of the angel before God (Rev. 8:3-4; Tob. 12). SECOND, even while still on earth, the saints demonstrated knowledge of events occurring far from them, as if present, clearly perceiving the future as if it were the present and revealing the secrets of human hearts. For example, the patriarch Jacob foresaw future events for his sons (Gen. 48; Gen. 49). Moses, on Mount Sinai, was aware of conditions within the camp (Ex. 32). Samuel discerned Saul's innermost thoughts (1 Sam. 9). Elisha was privy to his servant's hidden wrongdoing (2 Kings 5), and the covert plans of the king of Aram (2 Kings 6). Likewise, Daniel was informed of King Nebuchadnezzar's secret dream and its meaning (Dan. 2). Also, the Apostle Peter recognized the deceit of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5). The Apostle Paul anticipated the deliverance of those aboard a storm-tossed ship, and many other similar instances exist (Acts 27). If the saints exhibited such extraordinary insight while living on earth, their knowledge must be even more profound now as they reign with Christ. Does it not follow that what is possible on earth is also true in Heaven? Is it that existence in exile is comparable to life in the homeland? Is the humble abode of animals on par with royal chambers? Who would claim that mortals possess greater bliss and insight on earth than in Heaven or receive more revelation in separation from God's presence than in the fullness of His inexplicable glory? THIRD, friendship entails a sharing of knowledge, as Christ articulated: “I no longer call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have told you all that I have heard from My Father” (John 15:15). Given that the saints in Heaven are the friends of God, as expressed in the psalm, “And I honor thy friends highly, O God” (Ps. 138:17), and are more closely united with Him in Heaven than on earth, how could our prayers offered to them not be disclosed to their Divine Friend? FOURTH, the saints in Heaven possess a clear vision and understanding of God’s nature, who reflects all creation, much as one gazing into a physical mirror sees what is reflected. Those who behold the magnificence of God certainly perceive the ineffectualities, which are far lesser. Can it be that the saints, knowing the All-Knowing One, fail to recognize our prayers, when gazing upon the brilliance of their Creator? Having derived from Scripture how the saints comprehend our prayers, we must now consider the scriptural references cited by the adversaries which they misinterpret. During their earthly lives, individuals, aware of their mortality, may repent and seek their salvation to avoid spiritual demise. However, neglecting to repent while alive, upon death, they become ignorant of the purpose of repentance and lack understanding of how to attain salvation. For post-mortem, there is no opportunity for repentance, but those wishing to turn toward God should do so in the present earthly existence.

Ireneus (Orda)

19th centuryCommentator

It is deeply unsettling that in this world, both the righteous and the wicked meet the same end; this reality tends to make the latter overly assured (Ecclesiastes 9:1-3). Death ultimately reaches everyone, bringing closure to all existence (Ecclesiastes 9:4-6), thus reaffirming the principle of enjoying life and the gifts we receive from God. Therefore, take pleasure in your life and your belongings while you have them, and do not be anxious about anything. If difficulties arise, they will come as they will, and if they do not, you cannot anticipate their arrival nor know how long your days will last (Ecclesiastes 9:7-10).

Cross references

Passages read together with this verse.